[Openmcl-devel] CCL is a mess
ralex at cs.colorado.edu
Wed May 27 11:20:40 EDT 2009
On May 27, 2009, at 6:17 AM, Raffael Cavallaro wrote:
> On May 26, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Alexander Repenning wrote:
>>> Detailed issues: 80% of the examples do not run as condition
>>> is thrown about TITLE missing. It would be good if the example code
>>> within the examples was uncommented and ran on 'compile and load
> With respect, these defects are particular to xlui and its example
> code (which is commented out, and which often throws errors when
> executed complaining of TITLE missing). They have nothing to do with
> CCL itself.
yes, completely true. I just dumped the entire comment into the email.
That specific "bug" is about not having evaluated the class
definitions in the example code before. The suggestion of uncommenting
is probably a good one. Will do for the next release.
>>> The IDE is abysmally bad to the point of becoming a mockery of
>>> Lisp. Extremelly unstable, beach balls all the time seemingly for
>>> no reason at all, lack of customization, stupid defaults, alien
>>> look & feel with no relevance to Apple HIG. Most importantly: It
>>> does not inspire confidence for someone to make the investment and
>>> learn/use lisp.
> And these are, at base, really all about Hemlock. I've felt similar
> things myself at times. In just about every case, I could trace the
> instability to Hemlock, not CCL itself.
> That said, I think the CCL maintainers (i.e., Clozure) could do
> themselves a big favor in terms of perception if they either replaced
> Hemlock entirely, or reviewed its code closely. It's filled with bugs
> whose affects are glaringly obvious to casual users, and which give
> the false impression that all of CCL is as unstable as Hemlock.
> Recently an "interesting" behavior has appeared in trunk: a Cmd-V
> paste will do nothing for over a full second, then the pasted text
> will suddenly appear. I suppose this is better than having it paste
> the wrong text as it formerly did, but it makes CCL look much lamer
> than it actually is.
I agree, the curb appeal of the CCL/IDE is not great right now. I
wonder if the person making the comment actually does like any of the
existing Lisp IDEs such as LispWork or Allegro. I am guessing he/she
would not like them either. Even the Mac version of LispWorks does not
really try to deal with Apple's HIG. I actually think CCL does already
a better job at that. With some more work the instability will
hopefully go away but some of the other issues raised would probably
require a much more significant redesign.
Incidentally, I noticed that Lisp sources in Google code do get some
(must be pre CLOS) Lisp syntax coloring. Have a look at this (not the
actual content) and notice how Google code marks the code up in some
When the code comes up you may initially see the black and white
versions for a split second before the colorization does its work.
Have a look at the HTML source of that page.
Prof. Alexander Repenning
University of Colorado
Computer Science Department
Boulder, CO 80309-430
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